Ordinances
Supporters of "Dirty Old Men's Club 10" seem to be under the impression that Wilkes-Barre Township cannot enact new ordinaces that apply to them. Not true. A township has the ability to enact and enforce ordinances that are in the public's best interest at any point.
Case in point: Strip Club Closed After New Ordinance Takes Effect
Case in point: Strip Club Closed After New Ordinance Takes Effect
posted by Mr. Family at
7:08 AM
43 Comments:
that club will violate any ordinance it wants until our local officials grow a backbone and stand up to them like we were under the impression they would
it seems like they're playing a game with us. they put ordinances we all want on the books, but they never enforce them. why get our hopes up if you aren't going to follow through with enforcement?
gentlemen's club 10 will win so long as we let them
By
Anonymous, at 10:18 AM
They aren't just "dirty old men." Don't forget about the "young perverts" as well.
By
Anonymous, at 10:21 AM
Don't you just love when they "flip the bird" to passing cars? Such love. The Arena Hub is so much better now. I have always felt that all we needed to complete the development of the Township was flesh peddling. So glad it was someone local who took up the initiative to make that happen. Thanks Sally.
By
Anonymous, at 10:56 AM
Mr. F,
First, I posted the information on zoning and land use ordinances and their enforceability in PA. I am not, however, as your post mentions, a "supporter" of the Club. My conclusion suggested directing your and the opposition's efforts at W-B Twp. and not the club, because throwing religion and morals at the club is useless. Read on.
Second, McCook County, from your post, is in South Dakota. Jurisdiction matters, and South Dakota law does not apply to Pennsylvania.
Third, your post refers to an ordinance that requires licensing for dancers and owners as well as a distance requirement. It is unclear whether the County is doing this under zoning or under the guise of the public health, safety, morals and welfare (the "police powers" of the state).
Looking at this South Dakota ordinance through Pennsylvania's glasses, if it is a zoning change, it dies in Pennsylvania. Again, GC10 has a nonconforming use and any change in zoning, once they are operating, cannot be retroactive. Refer to my previous explanation.
If, however, this is being pushed under the police powers, it MAY but only MAY pass muster. Nude and semi-nude dancing is U.S. Constitutionally protected free speech. In Pennsylvania, such dancing /operation of a club may be limited where the ordinance serves an interest within the power of the municipality, where it furthers an important or substantial government interest, where the government interest served is unrelated to free expression, and where the restriction on First Amendment freesoms is no greater than is essential to the furtherance of that interest.
The third requirement, unrelated to free expression, means that the municipality cannot stop nude dancing simply because it is nude dancing. It may, for example, tie it to alcohol use (licensed liquor establishments) and issues of control, as I believe W-B Twp. indirectly did with the bottle ordinance (though I do not think GC10 is a licensed establishment). But, GC10 complied with this ordinance, and the club stayed open (and the plan backfired when the age limit was lowered).
All I am trying to convey here is the difficulty that any challenge to GC10 faces. W-B Twp. may be able to pass an ordinance that gets the dancers to wear pasties and G-strings, and perhaps some distance requirement, but to do so, it will need valid and strong reasons to meet freedom of speech and expression concerns.
One word of warning, though. If a town regulates to the point where a business has no option but to close its doors, in comes a claim for a Fifth Amendment taking without just compensation. And, the town may be forced to pay an amount unimaginable in exchange for ridding its soil of the club. Tax payers will see the costs of this, if not through taxes directly, then through the degradation of other town services due to cutbacks.
Mr. F, I think the club is in poor taste, in a horrible location, does nothing to complement the hopeful resurgence of W-B and W-B township, promotes the degradation of women, results in sleepless nights for many (but not necessarily all) wives, skews men's views of women (they're not just breasts; they are doctors, lawyers, police officers -- they are everything men are, despite some men's beliefs), and a host of other ill effects. I wish the thing would, WHEN EMPTY, fall into a long-forgotten mine tunnel. But, my beliefs are not the law. Society succeeds because it is ordered by rules. W-B Twp. could have stopped this is they recognized the rules and community needs beforehand. Instead, it dropped the ball.
Opposition who are taxpayers and concerned citizens need to, when able, voice their concerns to the W-B Twp. governing body. Come general election time, let the Twp. know your displeasure through the polls. And push the Twp. to work on an ordinance that somehow meets First Amendment and PA law muster, frustrates GC10, but misses being a taking that requires compensation. It will not be easy, as should be clear. But, as said before, through W-B Twp.'s mistake, GC10 holds the advantage.
By
Anonymous, at 11:26 AM
South dakota (the article
mr family quoted) and pennsylvania have entirely different laws and state constitutions. You cannot
enacts ordinances in pennsylvania after the place opens-- we covered this before--mr family doesn't understnd pa law.
and the grandfather principle of law. If wilkes-barre township passes an ordinance saying no home can be over 50 feet tall and my 100 year old house is 60 ft tall, does it mean i have to tear it down? no.
By
Anonymous, at 1:22 PM
DITTO 10:18, except they didn't get my hopes up. good ol' boy politicians are polticians are polticians...money is money is money.
DITTO 10:21 and 10:56
and question to anybody: since laws are changed sometimes, why can't these ordinances be too? carved in stone or what?
wbt, why can't we set up a vote on that? what do you say, carl - or do you like the shame game? hope to see a flyer on my door like your mayoral/council vote petitions.
By
Anonymous, at 1:24 PM
Yes, there are mine tunnels under that scuzzy building. I mentioned once before on here that there was a subsidence shortly after that building was built. A few renters came and went when the clearly visible building's corner and land gave way about 15 years ago or so; and ever since, it was vacant. The potential for the building collapsing again is very likely with much more damage.
Laugh all they want now,when the time comes, may not be very soon, the township will prevail as it always has thanks to the hard work of our predecessors.
In the end, their anti-religious and anti-moral scoffing will be their worst enemy, worse than it is now.
In the end, the club personnel and patrons will not be able to fight the Acts of God.
By
Anonymous, at 4:32 PM
No big surprise there at that "upscale" establishment for societal lowlifes, Sally. They're advertising where their "small brains" are kept. Know what I mean?
By
Anonymous, at 5:48 PM
The foundation of the building was reinforced and repaired before the club moved in. Did no one see the construction? So you will be waiting a long time for it to give way again.
And the above poster is right. The "new" ordinances that effect adult clubs will not pertain to club10. As they were enacted after their permit was filed. The PA Constitution is very protective on freedom of speech and expression. Which actually protects nude dancing. Pays to read the state laws, and constitution.
By
Anonymous, at 4:55 AM
11:26 Great post. Well written and very much the truth. Sadly goes on deaf ears.
4:32 Nice, Wishing death and pain on someone. Hoping that something fails. Awesome. What if that happened when the building was the Chinese restaurant? IF it crumbled when you and your family were sitting in there eating your peking duck? I don't think my God will pick and choose who is in the building for that to happen. Sad. What God to you follow?
As 11:26, pointed out. the only way to curb this club is to go the political and the legal way. The use of God and Morals will do nothing to shut this place down.
By
Anonymous, at 5:30 AM
Small brains? You mean like constantly quoting other states local laws and then criticizing our own local officials, with out ever looking into local laws. Takes a small brain to do that. Oh wait, that's what this site does.
By
Anonymous, at 1:07 PM
Low life's now? It is truly sad that this can not be a real debate without both sides turning to name calling and insults. ProClubbers and AntiClubbers have both proved to be immature.
Name calling, Rumor spreading, lies, insults and more fill this web site. None of you act like adults.
By
Anonymous, at 6:53 AM
To 10:18am You are absolutely right. Mr family it might be time to shift gears we should all put pressure on the local politicians it is an election year. I read in the times leader the ordinance issue was to go before the court does anyone know when? Also if people did get out and vote (as little or many that did) local authorities should act. It is a shame that the politicians are toying with us, not club 10!! Shame on you. I will not vote you in next time!!
By
Anonymous, at 8:32 AM
You are going to have a lot of issues trying to close the place.
1. It has been there for over six months. No police
reports of illegal activity.
no PROVEN Complaints.
2. An Anonymous website is not nearly as effective as
a concerned citizen's group
with REAL, VERIFIABLE from
Wilkes-Barre township.
3. Lack of proof that the club has harmed residents, neighboring businesses, ( the fact that there are NEW businesses being consructed
next to the club doesn't help your claims about decreased property values etc, in fact it disproves them)
By
Anonymous, at 2:06 PM
you forget one thing mr family the us court of appeals has ruled pa obscenity and lewd dancing law illegal.
so now what can you get the gclub 10 for?
By
Anonymous, at 2:20 PM
It always comes down to politics in the end. I'm voting to throw out all incumbents, not only for letting gclub10 become the crown jewel of W-B Township, but also for the many other ways in which they've demonstrated their corruption, incompetence and ignorance of constituents' wishes. In the meantime, it's somewhat consoling to note that most of our local college students possess sufficient intelligence and maturity to avoid making the sex peddlers richer.
By
Anonymous, at 4:17 PM
Oooooh I luv it when the reading disabled join in!
Going down the line:
5:30, please quote from blog 4:32 where pain and death was wished on anybody. The way I understood it, it was about no one being able to prevent the building from collapsing. Nothing about people being inside. duhhh!!!!!
(from 11:26) the club participants are people. God and/or morals should be the primary instillment, totally aside from the legal aspects.
1:07, small brains, yes, like the ones giving the bird. Real brainy. Quoting other states laws, critizing local officials. Try calling it learning from other state's experiences and then nudging for similar action.
6:53, name calling? Funny how the club participants abandon any care about nudity, sexual provocation, male participation, and degradation, but become super sensitive all of sudden when those recognitions and acts are verbally defined from legitimate dictionary defintions. Try truth. Either way, if you can't take the heat, stay out of the kitchen.
To be pointed out: this is not a debate. Debates call for two equal challenging sides. The AntiClubbers are right. No debate.
By
Anonymous, at 6:14 PM
ps so sorry 5:30, what God do YOU follow or "use" if you do not believe the one true God has the ultimate power in the universe over mankind, man-made laws, nature, and immorality?
By
Anonymous, at 6:28 PM
to 8:32a, I agree with you about the politicians toying with us, but I disagree with your view about club10. club10 started toying with us as soon as their idea was initiated and thought nothing about lawsuits. They are not the total innocents.
to 6:53a, if you are mature and able enough to maintain your dignity, I'd actually suggest that you go to club10 to see how much vomit you can hold. I'd hope that within the first five minutes you would find it revolting, depart, and then have understanding of the immaturity anti-club supporters are dealing with. You would see first hand, grown people not acting like adults. If you think these blogs offend you, I'd hope that sight would offend your sense of respect more, and you would say to them upon your departure: "none of you act like adults."
By
Anonymous, at 8:53 PM
Other than the blasting, don't ask me how they did it, but the breaker entrance to those mine tunnels is way over near Alan Industries. Too long a tunnel to guarantee a small reinforced area that has already been proven to be vulnerable. For changing the constitution and the laws, where there's a will, there's a way. It has been done.
By
Anonymous, at 4:39 AM
Maybe Mr.Family, if you brushed up on local laws and the PA constitution, you would realize that the "new" ordinances you commonly refer to do not apply to Club10 due to the grandfather clause. Since they filed for their permit before these ordinances were in place. But I know you are in denial, since many have posted the same thing I am now.
You seem to be more interested in what other states do, rather than take a walk to the courthouse and find out what are local laws say.
By
Anonymous, at 5:59 AM
If Mr. Family was so interested in stopping/shutting this house of the rising sun down, then why does he not list the dates, times and such of the next meetings in WB-TWP, Court dates and the like so we the people can attend and speak up? Also, addresses and numbers of the people who from WB-Twp are responsible for permitting this to happen. I guess laws and issues in other states are more important then the locality of where you all live. I am sure the owners of the clubs are aware of what they have done, but are the council members, mayor of WB-TWP aware of how they let the people who pay their wages, and voted them in down?
It seems that people want to only blame one party in this situation when there are indeed two or more parties that permitted this club in.
By
Anonymous, at 6:00 AM
The local officials did all they can. They can not change PA state law..which can over ride local ordinances. PA constitution is very protective of free speech and freedom of expression. Both which nude dancing is protected under.
Just because a lot of people do not like what the club does... It does not give you the right to take it away.
They have rights too, as much as you hate it. it is the truth.
Do not blame the local officials just because you didn't get your own way. They made the effort, and they are actually saving us all money by not going to court, when they know they will more than likely lose, and we will fit the bill in taxes.
By
Anonymous, at 9:26 AM
wilkes-barre township has lawyers which informed them not to pursue enforcing the ordinaces against the club
because the townhip is going to lose-- vote the incumbants out if you wish(for those of you who actually live in wilkes-barre township) it wouldn't change things.
And the pennsyvnia constitution isn't going to be changed without infringing on all of our rights including the right to protest which is freedom of expression
By
Anonymous, at 6:40 AM
If only the pro-clubbers would learn the books on decency instead of trying to be constitutional experts (which involves a lengthy education and experience), they should come to the conclusion that everybody has the innate RIGHT to live in respectful dignity, and that the legal system respects that right for concerned citizens who make legitimate claims towards amending new legislationS.
Wasn't there something about slavery a while back that was initially legal and then declared unconstitutional?
Wasn't there something about a radio shock jock recently that declared his freedom of speech unworthy to be on the airwaves?
Infringing? Can't change? Won't change? Overturned? Hmmmm.....
By
Anonymous, at 2:12 PM
Voting out incumbents may not close gclub10, but it would at least get rid of those who allowed it to be inflicted upon the residents. And the PA constitution would be better served by those who might improve upon it rather than merely voting pay raises for themselves at our expense. I'm confident in due course the strip club will be given enough rope with which to hang itself; unless, of course, the person who posted about the mine tunnel is correct and the club sinks to a whole 'nother level.
By
Anonymous, at 3:12 PM
to 312pm the constitution gives rights not takes them away. if the gclub does something illegal, then it should be cited just like any other business.
By
Anonymous, at 7:06 AM
312 yep, i guess the constitution gave rights to the politicians to increase their salaries too. don't want to hear any complaning from you that you had no say on them taking away your rights about your input on that. and the pols cant even be cited on their 2am "legal" vote.
so lets vote on a new name for the down going gclub. pick one.
1 club mine tunnel
2 club ker plunkkk!
3 club remnants
4 club hole
5 club helloooo down there!
By
Anonymous, at 6:38 PM
The contstitution gives congress the ability to raise their salaries. They can VOTE to raise them. Like you can vote to get the idiots out of office. Simple. How many people actually go to the WBTWP meetings. I am sure that it is not alot of the anti clubbers on this blog.
By
Anonymous, at 6:10 AM
the courts ruled the pay raise legal, which they later voted to rescind, how does that have anything to do with the club?
By
Anonymous, at 12:05 PM
The constitution is of the people, by the people, and for the people. (HA!big joke) thats you and me, people.
anyway, congressmen and women -believe it or not- are SUPPOSED TO WORK FOR the people. (another HA!)
so we the people, the "employers" of congress, are the ones who should rightfully have the ability to pay our employees as we see fit! and fire them when they screw up. but that would clear out congress!
and can't understand why millionaires a couple times over need raises?????
the last time i was employed by somebody, i wasn't able to give myself a raise.
doesn't matter who doesn't go to the meetings. the now twp politicians can consider themselves unemployed.
By
Anonymous, at 5:59 PM
to 12:o5p, a previous blogger, 3:12, was pointing out, in essence, about the incapablilty of incumbent politicians involved in this club matter. (true)
The pro-clubs like to cling to the notion that their cherished nudity laws are not changeable. (not true) Thus blogger 3:12 was saying politicians' time would be better spent on rescinding nudity/obscenity laws,etc. instead of worrying about how much money they can stuff into their own pockets----the whole deal being at our expense for the majority of us who do not appreciate skin places.
By
Anonymous, at 8:22 AM
to 822 am how can the laws be changed if the supreme court has ruled nude danicing is a constitutionally protected right. A constitutional amendn=ment against nude dancing? See how far that has gotten in the issue of same sex marriage.
By
Anonymous, at 1:05 PM
gclub10 supporters are quick to claim nude dancing is a constitutionally protected right. So is abortion, but I wouldn't want an abortion clinic next to the arena, either, though I am pro-choice. I'm not looking to change the constitution, I'd just like to see people practice some self-restraint. Freedom of speech doesn't mean you can yell "Fire!" in a crowded theatre and it doesn't make "dancers" out of 18-year old girls lured to get naked on "amateur" night.
By
Anonymous, at 12:54 PM
to 1254 well it is like this no one wants an abotion clinic, methadone treatment clinic etc anywhere near their homes, but they have to be located somewhere. WB township did not have any zoning where adult clubs could be located and this is what happened.
By
Anonymous, at 6:33 AM
gosh, how abortion clinics, meth clinics, and a dirt club all have the same thing in common.......nobody wants them near their homes. I'd sooner have a meth clinic in my neighborhood knowing it's a place people get help instead of a scuzzy club ruining people.
anti-abortion.
By
Anonymous, at 1:22 AM
6:33, You're right that W-B Township dropped the ball by not designating where sex peddlers could locate, but I'd still rather have a methadone treatment clinic than gclub10 in this location. As sexist "entertainment", strip clubs don't NEED to be located anywhere, but since they are legal, keep them in the boondocks where the rest of us aren't continually offended by having them in our faces every time we drive through a township's busiest intersection!
By
Anonymous, at 10:04 AM
I don't think people really would mind having a methadone clinic where club trash is located. Since it's a publicly seen area, I believe it would give a more positive incentive to the overwhelming drug-afflicted that help is near and available. Just like a hospital, people have loved ones who are sick and in need of treatment. Actually, I think it would be a community service.
On the other hand, perhaps the club trash building will potentially become a treatment clinic for the sexually afflicted, another destructive vice in itself that is obviously on the rise.
It's a shame that our community is afflicted with both the druggies and the sexually disturbed who do not want help.
By
Anonymous, at 4:30 PM
Located in the boondocks, yes. But not anywhere near where their prolific sexcapades would detract from the beauty and innocence of nature.
By
Anonymous, at 3:55 AM
to 430 pm oh really-look how they carried on in avocan with an alcohol treatment center.
By
Anonymous, at 1:22 PM
oh really! look at how heartbreaking it is for loved ones whose innocent family members were killed by drunk drivers. do you think they should really object to alcohol treatment centers?
fortunately the majority of people have not had that experience, but how soon they would change their minds when, if, God forbid, it should happen.
it appears when there is any kind of attempted progression towards serious rehabilitation in this area, most minds shut down. but the same prefer to endlessly complain about druggies and drunks "oh, there's nothing being done about it!"
unfortunately, yet, too many families are affected by drugs and alcohol. go figure.
this valley needs to wake up to the realism and the need for treatment clinics and stop being apathetic about the invasion of the evil porn industry...unless they need something new to complain about.
By
Anonymous, at 5:28 AM
528 am i should add the county zoning board DENIED the application for a rahab
center at the old convent in avoca. more protest about that than when the gclub opened.
By
Anonymous, at 12:20 PM
12:20, there was no public protest when gclub10 went up because the public was not given the opportunity to weight in, due to the fact that W-B Township allowed Scuzzy Scalzo to sneak it into the community rather than make his application public.
By
Anonymous, at 6:26 PM
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